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Author Topic: Final Fantasy 7 - Fans, a remake ain’t happening.  (Read 1544 times)
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DissidiaAerith
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« on: December 26, 2010, 05:51:55 PM »

Taken from 2d-x.com article:

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Square Enix seems to be in dire straits. They reduced their earnings forecast for the fiscal year by 91%. They delayed Deus Ex: The Human Revolution. They fired the top dogs behind Final Fantasy XIV Online, and delayed its PS3 version. This has the Internet trolls up in arms. “It’s the beginning of the end” for Square Enix, they say! Nevermind that delaying games hopefully means a debacle like FFXIV won’t happen again. The company’s clearly in trouble, and apparently, people still think a remake of Final Fantasy VII will magically solve all of Square Enix’s problems — let alone actually happen at all. Despite all the contrary evidence, there are some that truly believe the Square Enix of today can pull off a remake to the much-beloved as Final Fantasy VII. That’s just flat out stupid.

Didn’t you all hate Final Fantasy XII? And Final Fantasy XIII? And we all know the deal with FFXIV. What makes you think the Square Enix of today would do FFVII justice if they couldn’t, in the Internet mob’s opinion, get the past decades’ worth of installments right? No, the last thing Square Enix needs to do is release more remakes — it releases enough. The company just announced yet another one for Final Fantasy IV. If we’re keeping count that’s like six or seven remakes for the same game in the past few years. If we’re really keeping count, shouldn’t Square Enix do FFV and FFVI, first? Let’s keep things in order here, people.


 But back to FFVII. You guys forget a lot of the more ridiculous moments of Final Fantasy VII wouldn’t work very well in the super-realistic, HD life-like graphics of today. Let’s run ‘em off:
 ■Anything that involves Cait Sith (who never made much sense)
 ■Anything that involves Red XIII (he tip-toes on his hind legs past guards or something at one point)
 ■Barret in a sailor suit
 ■The Tifa/Scarlett slapfight atop the Junon Cannon
 ■The squat contest between Cloud and the bodybuilders
 ■The whole Don Corneo scenario
 ■Snowboarding down a mountain moments after Aerith’s demise
 ■Hiding aboard a cartoony submarine
 ■Protecting a giant condor’s eggs


FFVII is a silly, silly game, even when it was serious. So, wait, Sephiroth is actually a series of ghost clones manifested by, uh, his will to lure Cloud to his resting place to hand him — wait, how does a ghost slay a Midgar Zolom, a president or a flower girl?!. It wasn’t until 2005′s animated movie Advent Children made all the characters droll super-serious Super Saiyans, and everyone suddenly forgot Cloud once donned a dress and tiara to sneak into a bordello to rescue Tifa by seducing a slumlord. In a place called Honeybee Manor.

FFVII straddles old and new styles of RPG presentation. The CG cutscenes featured tall, well-modeled characters running into blue pick-up trucks and escaping on impressive-looking motorcycles. The commercials for the game showed only these parts of the game and with Advent Children, Crisis Core, and Kingdom Hearts fresh on everyone’s minds this “realistic” style is all anyone remembers. The aforementioned goofy segments wouldn’t translate well at all in the Advent Children-ized remake everyone wants. The goofy elements would have to be excised to suit that style. The game would be stripped of its personality, like Cloud.

The battles feature similar attractive, lean graphics, but the bulk of the game, and its plot, is presented in an overworld perspective not all that different from the first six Final Fantasies. In this “view” FFVII‘s super-deformed characters are a polygonal stone’s throw from the tiny little sprites of the old NES and SNES games, big eyes, squatty arms and all. Imagination had to fill in the rest until those cutscenes showed you everything “made whole” again. It wasn’t until Final Fantasy VIII (a game unfairly mauled all the time because it isn’t FFVII-2) that Square Enix made the whole visual package complete.

The FFVII we have now is a bizarre-looking hybrid, and that’s where most of its charm lies. For better and worse, it brought RPGs, and games in general, to the mainstream. If Square Enix remakes FFVII it to resemble Advent Children, where everyone looks like they just stepped out of Rent or Twilight, we’ll have another cold, dreary game about the end of the world with no significance attached. It’ll just be another cash cow in a too-long line of remakes. Square Enix pumps out remakes faster than a gold chocobo at the races, so the chance of a remake remains a faint possibility. On the other hand, we know how much fanboy and fangirl clamor, petitions, wishing and praying gets us. I still don’t see Metal Gear Solid 4 on the Xbox 360, or a fresh Chrono game.
God forbid they set their sights on new Saga, Mana, or tactics-based Front Mission games — or a proper Xeno game. Or The World Ends Without You 2. Or, hell, a new IP.

Here’s another morsel for thought: How would Square Enix handle the battle system? Leaving it as it won’t fly with today’s audience used to Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Fallout. What about variable choose-your-own-adventure good-or-evil style of play? Hmm. You think Square Enix will keep all that the same for its fans? Or go for the biggest audience possible?
Finally, a remake would be a stupendously expensive venture. Why would Square Enix spend all those hours, money and resources on a game that came out over ten years ago, that recently came out again on the PlayStation Network, when it already made several lousy spin-offs, sequels, and prequels? When they could spend all that effort on something else, something better?

Square Enix has wasted enough — more than enough — attention on FFVII. For that matter, haven’t you, too?
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Gaurro
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2010, 07:00:10 PM »

They have a good point there...
and i'm not sure i'd like to play a FFVII remake, even if VII is my favorite FF game. I had some great time playing Crisis Core and mostly because of the nostalgia factor. My memories of the original were kept intact and safe after beating CC (if not refreshed and enriched) because it's a spin-off... that's why i "fear" a modern remake, i don't want'em altered.
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2010, 07:39:47 PM »

are we still talking about this....  Cry
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cloudkitt
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 10:18:33 PM »

Hey, finally joined the forums.

And almost solely to tear this article apart, so thanks for bringing it to my attention diss  wink Ready? Here we go!

Quote
Didn’t you all hate Final Fantasy XII?


No.

Quote
And Final Fantasy XIII?


No.

And XIV doesn't really count. I wanna say that I'm not saying they unequivocally SHOULD make a remake, I too would like them to definitively prove they can make a successful console game this generation first. But it doesn't change the fact that this article has a lot of stupid. Starting with the examples of things that supposedly "wouldn't work" in fancy graphics.

Quote
■Anything that involves Cait Sith (who never made much sense)


Um...why? He was in Advent Children AND Dirge of Cerberus and didn't seem to break the universe or "the magic" or whatever. He is what he is. And then the author even says Cait Sith never made sense. So then what would the difference be anyway? Next.

Quote
■Anything that involves Red XIII (he tip-toes on his hind legs past guards or something at one point)


Again he was in Advent Children and (however briefly) Dirge. What's the problem? Also, Red never tiptoes past guards on hind legs. He is standing upright in uniform on the ship to Costa Del Sol, but he's standing alone. You see him hiding on the ship during the send off and he's on all fours, he just snuck on board normally and then took on a disguise and kept his distance. Not that big a deal dude.

Quote
■Barret in a sailor suit


Why? They could just, y'know...put him in a sailor suit? What kind of point is this? Did you see what he is wearing in Advent Children? I don't think it would be that much of a stretch.

Quote
■The Tifa/Scarlett slapfight atop the Junon Cannon


...again, why? They slap each other...? This would be awkward in good graphics how? Next.

Quote
■The squat contest between Cloud and the bodybuilders


I swear you're just picking random events. WHY?! Crisis Core HAD a squat contest, it looked fine. I'll bet you didn't even play it.

Quote
■Snowboarding down a mountain moments after Aerith’s demise


The fact that he says "moments" makes me think he's picking on the fact that you snowboard so soon after losing her. So firstly, what on Earth does that have to do with the graphics? Secondly, they didn't snowboard for the hell of it, they had to get down the mountain, you want them to trudge down it slowly and depressed? Thirdly, if you did mean the graphics, you're still a moron. How many snowboarding games are out there? Next.

Quote
■Hiding aboard a cartoony submarine



...What's cartoony about it? Its a submarine. The bridge is a little over-the-top I guess but no moreso than all the airship bridges in Final Fantasy. Do you even PLAY this series?

Quote
■Protecting a giant condor’s eggs


This is unworkable in good graphics how? In FFX you spend the last playable room before the final boss collecting eggs that materialize out of nowhere. This is far less meaningless.

Quote
■The whole Don Corneo scenario


I moved this til the end because it is the ONLY ONE that he's potentially right about. They would have to be very careful with the Honeybee Inn and the crossdressing segment because what was silly in lego graphics could quickly become creepy. I still think they could pull it off, it would require some care that they haven't exhibited of late.

1 of 9 that are even close to having a point is not a great ratio dude. But this next sentence is where I really lost interest in what you had to say.

Quote
So, wait, Sephiroth is actually a series of ghost clones manifested by, uh, his will to lure Cloud to his resting place to hand him — wait, how does a ghost slay a Midgar Zolom, a president or a flower girl?!




I am officially convinced you haven't played the game. Or at least not since its release. Ghost clones? Where the hell did you get that from? The 'clones' are the survivors of the Nibelheim Incident that Hojo injected with Jenova cells. Their weak-wills and shattered psyches after seeing their town destroyed were easy for Jenova to dominate. And Sephiroth was in control of Jenova, so he could control them - just as he controlled Cloud.
And for your double-fail, Sephiroth was not a series of clones anyway. The Sephiroth you face for most of the game are pieces of Jenova. Jenova is a shapeshifter under Sephiroth's control. So, at his call, Jenova's body being stored at the Shinra building broke out, morphed into his shape, and killed President Shinra. You kill a piece on the ship, another piece kills Aerith, and you kill another piece at the crater just before finding Sephiroth's body.

While I wouldn't hold it against you for missing some of the intricacies, to get something so basic to the plotline completely wrong in an article ABOUT FF7 makes me really disinclined to take anything else you say very seriously. I could very well stop here, as this line makes my point for me, but I'll continue anyway. I only have to go to the next sentence to find something else wrong.

Quote
It wasn’t until 2005′s animated movie Advent Children made all the characters droll super-serious Super Saiyans, and everyone suddenly forgot Cloud once donned a dress and tiara to sneak into a bordello to rescue Tifa by seducing a slumlord. In a place called Honeybee Manor.



Yeah, no one forgot.
And since I'm being nitpicky, he didn't seduce anyone in the Honeybee Manor, it was in Don Corneo's bedroom on the other side of town.

Quote
The goofy elements would have to be excised to suit that style.


No they wouldn't.

Quote
The game would be stripped of its personality, like Cloud.


Ha ha you're so clever.

Quote
It wasn’t until Final Fantasy VIII (a game unfairly mauled all the time because it isn’t FFVII-2)


lol, no it isn't. Its mauled because Draw sucks and the story unravels halfway through. And even then I'd hardly say its "mauled," a TON of people like FF8. FFs IX and X are both beloved and neither of those are VII-2, again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote
The FFVII we have now is a bizarre-looking hybrid, and that’s where most of its charm lies. For better and worse, it brought RPGs, and games in general, to the mainstream. If Square Enix remakes FFVII it to resemble Advent Children, where everyone looks like they just stepped out of Rent or Twilight, we’ll have another cold, dreary game about the end of the world with no significance attached. It’ll just be another cash cow in a too-long line of remakes. Square Enix pumps out remakes faster than a gold chocobo at the races, so the chance of a remake remains a faint possibility. On the other hand, we know how much fanboy and fangirl clamor, petitions, wishing and praying gets us. I still don’t see Metal Gear Solid 4 on the Xbox 360, or a fresh Chrono game.
God forbid they set their sights on new Saga, Mana, or tactics-based Front Mission games — or a proper Xeno game. Or The World Ends Without You 2. Or, hell, a new IP.


Here I start to lose his point. I thought he was saying it wouldn't work. All he does is complain about remakes, and that they aren't the games HE wants to be remade. And while that's a fair enough point, have any of their remakes been dissected? Was FFIV's charm completely destroyed in a transision to 3D? Did they have to "excise" entire scenes or characters that wouldn't translate well. No. Did the remakes not make money? I think they did, that's why they keep making them. You've defeated your own point.
And I love how he lists the games he'd rather see revisited such as Chrono Trigger. I thought they'd ruin VII, they wouldn't ruin Chrono Trigger? Also, its the World Ends WITH You.

Quote
How would Square Enix handle the battle system? Leaving it as it won’t fly with today’s audience used to Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Fallout.


Mass Effect is a shooter-RPG, Fallout pauses frequently with the use of VATS, and Dragon Age combat is even more laborious than FFVII's. You have to pause CONSTANTLY. VII's NEVER pauses, its already faster. All they would have to do is speed it up, add a new mechanic here or there (as they did in IV with augments). Make the combat like X-2's or XIII's (in terms of speed, I mean). Or just leaving it wouldn't DESTROY its chances.. Lost Odyssey has a pretty standard battle system that no one seemed to complain about.

Quote
What about variable choose-your-own-adventure


Yeah! Like all the newer FFs! Oh wait...

Quote
[What about] good-or-evil style of play?


Because no one is sick of that 2 dimensional, black and white system yet, right? Let's throw some quick time events in too.

Quote
Finally, a remake would be a stupendously expensive venture. Why would Square Enix spend all those hours, money and resources on a game that came out over ten years ago


...Because it would turn a profit? More than they can say for FFXIV.

Quote
Square Enix has wasted enough — more than enough — attention on FFVII.


And you clearly didn't even pay attention to it the first time you played it.


Anyways, again, I'm not saying I definitively disagree with the meat of his point. But I'm not willing to give his arguments a whole lot thought with how much misinformation is in that article.







« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:52:07 PM by cloudkitt » Logged
DissidiaAerith
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 05:17:48 AM »

Welcome Cloudkitt, glad you joined now. Smiley

I think we both share the same thoughts about this article that this person wrote.
It seems to me, just like you said, have not played the FFVII games or seen the movies, and are one of those that thinks bad on it for having alot of fans.
Although i think he has a point when it comes to the don Corneo scenario, and the Honeybee Inn story, it wont be enough to stop a remake project of the game.
All the other things he wrote does not make sense and is just alot of mis-understandable information.
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 05:20:20 AM »

cloudkitt...that was a little harsh.  a little bit rude at the same time.

Dissidiaaerith, I can honestly say I agree with all your points.  FFVII is a good game.  However, I for one am sick of the FFVII "saga" it's like they have turned it into its own series.  Most of the things in the game would not stand with todays borders of gaming.  like the mako poisoning, and schizophrenia (sp?) lots of people would take offense to this.

Again, I do not think FF7 needs a remake.  I think too many people would complain about the little changed things.  
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cloudkitt
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 08:21:06 AM »

Dissidia didn't write that though.
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 08:34:46 AM »

Most of the things in the game would not stand with todays borders of gaming.  like the mako poisoning, and schizophrenia (sp?) lots of people would take offense to this.
You mean the 10 people who directly start shouting Fire when you only light a small candle. You shouldn't pay attention to those. Besides the only real reason why square isn't remaking FFVII is because the costs to make this game in HD are still way higher than the earnings they would get from it.

Apart from that most remakes aren't even done by Square-Enix. They are done by third party developers who want to make some easy money by porting/remaking old classics :Smiley
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Gaurro
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 11:07:50 AM »

Good analysis Cloudkitt,
you pretty much said what i thought reading that article, but i was too lazy to write it down...
still i find myself agreeing with the main point. A remake would see inevitably so many changes everybody would bitching about for eons (probably me too, i would complain like a little kid). Cause FFVII is so beloved, a remake (even if well made) would be too risky. And, to be honest, i'm just fine without it.

Square is doing the right thing not listening to crying fans who probably dont even know what they're asking for.
Here a drastic example:
You want your wife to have plastic surgery to make her look younger, and why not, maybe more sexy with something "adjusted" here and there. incredibly she agrees. the surgeon makes a wonderful job on her... but when she comes back home you suddenly realize that she's not the same as before, something of her identity u loved so much is gone somehow. Sure, she's pretty and all but not like when u fell in love with her... it's different... her eyes' shape is changed and it's not a good feeling at all.
Hu oh, we cant go back... what do we do now?
Then u go mad and start to yell at the surgeon, claiming he did it WROOONG!

Square-Enix is making a lot of FF remakes, true, but have you ever noticed that none of those remakes is completely remade from sketch and that none of them is from the PSX/PS2 era?
Why? Cause thanks to FFVII on PSone they reached an incredibly large audience and the FF franchise became almost a "cult" for too many people.
Would u take the risk of pissing off so many fans? it could really be fatal.
Also, we have to be honest, how can we be so sure a modern remake wouldnt change FFVII's "soul", its feeling?

Making a spin-off or such is the right financial call to please fans, they did it many times (and CC was wonderful).
Time to move on.

Btw, Cloudkitt, i'm not talking directly to you. I know u said: "I'm not saying I definitively disagree with the meat of his point. But I'm not willing to give his arguments a whole lot thought with how much misinformation is in that article" and i agree with u Smiley i just started from your post to explain my point better.

P.S. Sorry for that example. i know, i compared a woman to a videogame... i really did... but that's why i said it was a DRASTIC example XD. Anyways, even if rudely executed, i hope u got the idea :P
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 03:29:05 PM by Gaurro » Logged
Ch00b
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 11:43:46 AM »

With the condition that Square is in at the moment, a remake would probably be the end of Square. Making an exceptional game for today's consoles would take 6+ years, which Square does not have that much time to pull their act together, sadly. Sad
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 12:00:05 PM »

According to an article i read in this forum, and reading ch00b's comment, a director from square-enix said that it is technically imposible this days to make and RPG like the old times, because the dificulty of making great cities in 1080p full HD

...btw when i read this article i lol'd so hard thinking it was a joke   Grin
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2011, 12:03:09 PM »

when wada was asked last month about a possible remake he never said he wouldnt make one or that it was impossible, He said that right now it isn't on his mind and if it did happen it would take up to 3 to 4 years.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2011, 01:47:17 PM »

if it did happen it would take up to 3 to 4 years.

Which is not possible no matter what Wada says..
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Lousy_David
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2011, 01:17:45 PM »

The biggest problem with a remake is it wouldn't be the same:/
While most people think a remake would just be taking the graphics and sound up a few level the reality is that they would change a lot and quite possibly ruin it.
Though I think Gold Saucer would be amazing online haha.
So I'm relieved that they're not planning on it currently.
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 06:46:16 AM »

Right, if the only thing they did was to revamp the graphics, just like a reskin, but added more detailed models and do nothing else to the game, then I wouldn't mind. But of course since it's more advanced, they'd probably change the view and all that.
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