BioWare: Final Fantasy XIII Not an RPG

[Tebian-DJ]

BioWare Writing Director Daniel Erickson today said that Final Fantasy XIII isn’t an RPG.

In an interview with Strategy Informer (which has all sorts of Old Republic goodies) Erickson pointed out the successful game’s lack of definition in reply to a question about the main staple of The Old Republic being its story and the interaction with gameplay.

“Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route,” Erickson said, “You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not an RPG. You don’t make any choices, you don’t create a character, you don’t live your character… I don’t know what those are – adventure games maybe? But they’re not RPG’s.”

Source : Nukada

Strong words indeed.

Of course Final Fantasy is anything but final or a fantasy at this point (Sci-Fantasy at a stretch) so saying it’s not an RPG isn’t exactly a huge stretch either.

Click after the break for a tiny bit more, including some editorial opinions on what is and is not an RPG.

Many would argue that BioWare’s true RPG’s like Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire and the Mass Effect franchise are true RPGs that have inherited the throne from Japanese developers, whose games are so niche, they’re either not RPGs any more or they need a ‘J’ in front of them to distinguish them from computerized D&D translations.

It’s all about perspective. The ethical system of light/dark present in BioWare’s games is one way to tell a story, though it inevitably leads to debate on which ending was ‘correct’ when working within established franchises like Star Wars, the Good ending is canonical in KOTOR, for example, regardless of how you chose to progress your character.

It’s less of an issue in games like Mass Effect, which managed to actually just read your old save file and begin where you left off. There is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ ending to Mass Effect because the game itself is wholly reliant on the player, much like the original Role Playing Game, “Dungeons and Dragons.”

That point aside, it’s much easier to say that KOTOR is a true RPG than any Final Fantasy, whose story-telling hasn’t progressed much since the days of the NES. Your actions DO affect the outcome even if it isn’t “correct” according to George Lucas.

Squad-Enix wants to tell a specific story, which in turn removes it from the realm of RPGs in general, as the decisions the player makes in-game have no bearing on the story overall. It’s painfully linear and much closer to God of War than anything else.

I can upgrade my armour in Halo, does that make it RPG? Seeminly by Square-Enix’s definition, yes it does.

Progression and upgrades do not an RPG make.

Even MMORPGs like World of Warcraft and Aion have the developers strongly considering the players’ actions when developing and expanding storylines. The Matrix Online took this a bit too far and ultimately suffered for it, but MMO games are a different subject and better left for another day.

It’s safe to say at this point that Square-Enix is no longer an RPG developer. Their crown has long since passed to developers like Blizzard and BioWare.

[Tebian-DJ]

Be brave guys and post why you voted !

Personally I have not played ff13 but I can tell you from many of the other games Square has stuck there name on lately that RPG seems to have fallen out of their vocabulary. I have to agree with some that 13 might be the "Final" Fantasy if they do not get back to their roots in Square and make the games like they used too.

[Cloud552000]

ok square published ff13 as a RPG. it turn basically like all the all other numbered games. because its a new style and a different type of gameplay.sure you cant talk to many NCP you dont explore much of towns and verry little to go do till later in the game.does that make it linear? yes. does i not make it a none rpg game? no. now iam stubborn when it comes to defending a ff game and no matter what my mind id made up.  FF13 is a RPG maybe not the best rpg but its still one none the less

[Rhynovirus]

Ahh, but the question was not "Is it an RPG", but "Is it an RPG by old FF standards". RPG is a very broad genre these days. I'd say despite people not really liking the "hallway" that FF13 is still more of an RPG than an adventure game due to a variety of factors, including the battle style, leveling  style, and story style, among other things. Just because it's "on rails" by being a very linear progression with limited exploration doesn't mean its a different genre. Time Crisis is still considered a shooter, same as Half Life. One is on rails, one isn't.

Is FF13 a RPG? By today's broad definitions, yes.
But "by old FF standards", no.

But just because it's not old school doesn't mean it's a bad game.

[Muizzkabani]

I voted no because that is crap. It isn't a rpg by the standards but if you look at it and say It isnt FF. You are right it isn't anymore it is a game that is using the brand FF. Final Fantasy used the Turn-By-Turn fighting and in my heart it always will.

[Meteorfall777]

It is a new age in RPG gaming,which has technically started even before XIII,so blaming specifically XIII for changing the RPG genre would be as useful as a cat door on an elephant house.Sure,I liked the old style Final Fantasy RPGs and I still like them,so naturally any change is hard(XII being about the best proof you will get),but I owe Square way too much to abandon them now,ignoring all those good years of gaming they gave me.Time changes everything,not much to do but adapt...

[Magechaos]

i have not played it but by what i have seen i think it is an rpg

[hellmetal789]

as much as i like kotor, and bioware this guy is thinking in a western attitude lol, its still an rpg

but it isnt the classic square rpg i have felt after playing it at my buddies house that the older stuff is way better than it.

[Tailoni]

I vote No

Is it an RPG? Yes.

Is it an RPG by old FF Standards? No.

Out of my 12 years of playing Final Fantasy, I have never been surprised with a FF title like FFXIII... and I meant that in a bad way. As a game overall, it's fine. It's not that good, but not that bad at the same time. The battle system is the only thing that gets me coming back to playing it again. As a Final Fantasy game, however, it in my opinion did not live up to its hype and did not deliver what it should have.

1. The game was too "n00b friendly". There were a lot of save points and the explanations about the whole situation, conflicts, and etc. were a bit unnecessarily repetitive in the beginning.

2. Too many cutscenes. I mean, I like to watch a cutscene once in a while in FFX just to have a moment's rest from fighting all the time, but in FFXIII it was ridiculous.

Honestly, I do not see how FFXIII received high ratings.

[DiamondEdge]

I gotta admit that I don't have played it yet, but I clearly don't see why that much "hate" on the game based on all I saw and heard from friends. Maybe this isn't the best Final Fantasy ever or whatever, but...

It's not a RPG? Well, if it isn't, then the whole franchise isn't as well, I'm sorry. FFXIII plays pretty much the same as ANY other FF game before it. Travel -> Battle -> Cutscene -> Travel -> Cutscene -> Battle -> Cutscene -> (...).

Maybe there's more cutscenes than usual, less towns and whatever, but this basic flow is the same as it has always been. The only thing that's clearly changed is the world, less fantasy and more sci-fi, changes in the battle system and etc, things that were already done before anyways.

Even the so dreaded OMG THIS GAME IS TOO LINEAR is pretty much the same as the so looved FFX.

Sorry guys, not liking the game is something completely normal, but THIS is nothing more than pure nostalgia kicking in, no offence.

As for the Bioware guy, it's obvious that he will bash the concorrence at any chance he has. (would write more about my opinion on the "RPG Issue" compared to his, but i can't right now, maybe later)

[DiamondEdge]

About Bioware's opinion on RPGs, I'd say he's not completely wrong.

But, JRPGs are still RPGs, no matter what he says. It just plays differently than the western ones, who also play differently than tabletop rpgs. If his definition of RPGs in video games are "games who perfectly emulate tabletop rpgs", then there's not a single RPG on any console ever, period.

He keeps talking about choices and whatnots, but if just giving choices make a game a RPG, then pretty much every sandbox game ever is a RPG, since you can "do what you want".

Not to mention that all this talk about choices in WRPG as opposed to linearity in JRPG is also bs. In the end, 'choices' in WRPGS simply boil down to things like

Help the guy
Help the guy and give him money
Ignore the guy
Kill the guy
Help the guy, get the reward, kill the guy

Or, in other words, one or two "good" actions, one or two "bad" actions, and one somewhat neutral. Oh, that's sooooo like a 'computerized D&D'. You're still following a string, the game makes you think that you aren't.

You get more endings or more scenes, that's it. And, normally, this comes at a very high cost in storytelling. As much as the stories themselves are pretty good, I never found a single WRPG whose story I actually cared as much as I cared for the story in, for example, FFIX.

Comparing with real tabletop games, JRPGS is like a Gamemaster that gives you a complete and epic story, but doesn't really let you guys kill someone if the plot he made in his mind says that this guy can't die.

WRPGs is a bit more flexible, but still locks you anyway. You want to kill the guy? Only after you do this subquest, that other subquest, and call him a retard. No, you can't call him a 'douchebag'. Must be 'retard'.

JRPGS are more story focused and the WRPGS are more character focused, that's the only difference between then in regards to "role playing".

When someone actually makes a complete and perfect "computerized D&D emulation' where I can indeed do whatever I want whenever I want, then I will say that this game is more 'RPG' than both WRPGS and JRPGS.


Sorry for grammar errors or if anything I said doesn't make sense >_>

[brad100and8]

IS FF13 a "real" RPG by old FF standards ? No

Is it a RPG? Yes

I voted bring back the SNES although. Why? because if anything, the one thing I miss most is exploring!! Like for example FFV. In FFV you had to look around A LOT to get that 100% treasure rating and y'know what, I liked that time and I also liked finding secret passages and getting lost and everything that came with the SNES period so, heck, I say being the SNES back! It would also cost less to make because for what it matters you could make a high quality fully working RPG with intersting charecters and dialog on windows RPG creater! I've seen it been done before, in face i'll give you a link:  

Kolteka (Freeware)

Now, If you can make it back into SNES you can bring back that old wittyness that got me and other players drawn into it!! And also with the money saved over on graphics you can get better writers and spend more money on people to make sure the game is just about full proof!

[ChaosBeelzemon]

The older systems had some amazing games, but I don't think many people still play those systems, especially not the new generation of gamers.

[Tebian-DJ]

Well we have big fallow up to this story from a person who worked on the team of the game.

According to producer Yoshinori Kitase, though, that's absolutely what the FFXIII team was aiming for. As far as Kitase is concerned, FFXIII isn't even really a role-playing game. "We didn't really intend to work within with the RPG template," he says. "We wanted to create a new game, even a new genre. The way we look at it, there's isn't a certain format that we have to keep to and build a game around. Rather, it goes the other way around. We create a game and, depending on what works or doesn't work within that game, it ends up reflecting different staple elements."

"Now, the Dragon Quest series has stuck to the classical RPG format, and it's still greatly loved by fans," he notes. "The audience craves more of it! But that's because [Dragon Quest creator Yuji Horii] is making a fun game that just happens to fit within that template. As creators, we have to think about how to combine many different elements and concepts into something that gamers will enjoy. After that, others can judge what genre it belongs to. With FFXIII, we've first and foremost pursued a gameplay style in which different situations and dramatic occurrences will be presented to players one after the other."

In other words, FFXIII has taken yet another step closer to becoming the "interactive movie" detractors have waggishly derided the series as being ever since 1997's dazzlingly cinematic Final Fantasy VII -- and the creators are perfectly happy with that step.

"Because players are presented with multiple different situations on the field, in a lot of senses FFXIII is more like an FPS than an RPG," says director Motomu Toriyama. And it's true: The game consists almost entirely of dungeons, with enemies placed about the field to force players to consider their options as they attempt to advance along the path the game presents them with. Towns and villages are waypoints rather than destinations. And while battles still cut to a separate screen in the traditional RPG style, both the layout of the quest and the way players interact with enemies on the field give FFXIII a hybrid feel, as if Final Fantasy had collided with a modern action game like God of War or Bayonetta.

[Phoe]

It would be fine to create an interactive movie, so long as the balance stays firmly on the interactive side.  I don't want another Xenogears or Metal Gear Solid 2.  I like my playtime to outweigh my cutscene watching time.

And I don't buy into this 'broad new definition of~' crap.  RPG is an acronym standing for ROLE PLAYING game.  That means you are supposed to put yourself into the ROLE of the character(s).  13 is NOT that, by far.  The perspective shifts too many times.  FFXIII is an action game, and NOT an RPG, by ANY definition.  It's too much, as the article above says, like an interactive movie.  It's a story, an action and adventure story, but not something that you play a role in.  I think the 'truest' RPG you're likely to find is only available on the least liked console in history.  Dreamcast's Shenmue (and II) is one of the most openly explorable and immersive RPG experiences.  FFX was the last RPG I think Final Fantasy truly produced, if you leave out the MMO.  FFX, you played the ROLE of Tidus, even if the game was nearly as linear as XIII.  Linear or not, you didn't change perspectives every half an hour, you didn't have to try and put yourselves in the shoes of EVERY character.  You got the story from A perspective.  I'm not sure what to think about XII, it was trying to be FFXI offline.

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